tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post1550120666296354722..comments2023-10-05T03:21:41.343-06:00Comments on Invictus Pilgrim: An Expression of the DivineInvictus Pilgrimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-7835376921197876202011-01-29T16:33:26.970-07:002011-01-29T16:33:26.970-07:00I have to say, that I don't believe that any c...I have to say, that I don't believe that any church reveals truths. First of all, I don't believe in absolute truths in that I believe that Life and people are diverse and that there isn't ONE way. I believe that we have many ways in which to become fulfilled with the people we are and become in this life and through the discovery of many "truths" along Life's path. <br /><br />I also think that thinking and pondering are good, but without aligning thought with action, it's abstract. That again, points me in the direction of not believing in a church because each individual has their own way of understanding and aligning abstract to concrete. <br /><br />Thinking is essential, don't get me wrong. I believe that man is to be in eternal revolt as Camus wrote about in his book "The Rebel" (I hate the translated name in English. His point is that one must question one's beliefs and causes, especially when the means that are used (putting one's thoughts into actions) cancel the goodness of the objective. I'll let you think about that: but his main argument of the time was against the Communists who supported communism despite the torture camps in Russia. In the name of communism they were oppressing others. In the name of a church, who is being oppressed? <br /><br />I don't think that the church will do anything with regards to homosexuality because it doesn't fit with their absolutes (I wrote about this on your Exodus post)... it would threaten the very foundation of their beliefs and their prophets, their power ... <br /><br />Each one of us, however, in the name of God, Life or goodness can be lights of tolerance, support and generosity to others.Libellulehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07633236721899345816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-30364972889806395462011-01-29T10:20:49.092-07:002011-01-29T10:20:49.092-07:00@ J G-W - Thank you for your comments, thoughts an...@ J G-W - Thank you for your comments, thoughts and expressions of belief. I understand your points. My post was not intended to be about faith, however, but rather about belief. In our Mormon tradition, particularly, faith connotes action; doing something. My post was about belief, which to me connotes mental and spiritual contemplation, exertion and synthesis. Some would posit that belief is the soil from which faith springs, but the purpose of my post was not to examine the subject of faith. <br /><br />I suppose one could frame my comments about the "pedestrian-ization" of the Gospel in these terms, i.e., in terms of faith and belief. My personal view is that I would like to see more emphasis on thinking and pondering and contemplating in the Church, rather than "doing." I am reminded of Hugh Nibley's excellent essay, "Zeal Without Knowledge." <br /><br />To reiterate what I was trying to say, which of course is my personal viewpoint, we in Mormonism have these sublime truths, but not much is being done with them, no pondering, no contemplating, no (if you will) philosophizing - which, in my view, is at the heart of what makes us human. And, of course, my main point is that nothing is being done with them in the context of the whole subject of homosexuality.<br /><br />I appreciate your view about the Church being the only vehicle. I'm sure you also appreciate that others do not, or no longer, share that view.<br /><br />@Clive - I am, sir, your humble servant. :)Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-86820985328894149942011-01-29T09:58:28.253-07:002011-01-29T09:58:28.253-07:00J G-W, you are confusing means and ends. Faith, re...J G-W, you are confusing means and ends. Faith, repentance, and revelation are the means by which each individual comes to know God. The "sublime truths" that Pilgrim outlined are the ends--the answers to the Great Questions. <br /><br />While the Church may be the primary vehicle through its saving ordinances by which man may become deity, as Pilgrim has rightly stated, the Church's energy and focus today has little to do with helping us understand deity or our divine nature for that matter.Clive Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13429000026909551119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-26324811746183591592011-01-29T09:44:38.730-07:002011-01-29T09:44:38.730-07:00Invictus, what can I add? You have a wonderful way...Invictus, what can I add? You have a wonderful way of writing what my heart feels. That (and your pictures) is the reason I enjoy starting each day with your blog post.Clive Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13429000026909551119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-76467167546037738412011-01-29T09:01:38.456-07:002011-01-29T09:01:38.456-07:00I love your description of the "sublime truth...I love your description of the "sublime truths" of the Restored Gospel.<br /><br />But faith is not a "philosophy." Faith is a relationship with the divine. These statements about the nature of humanity and our divine destiny are at best verbal approximations of a truth that we must experience first hand in an encounter with God. They are "mysteries" that the Church can't, cart before horse style, emphasize over first gospel principles.<br /><br />We don't become God-like by reminding ourselves that we are gods. Hitler's grand experiment also was (and other similar experiments have also been) a sort of grasping at godhood. I'm wondering if American civilization isn't also reaching a kind of terminus that was well described in Book of Mormon prophecy... ("At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be <i>lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth</i>, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs...")<br /><br />We approach God -- we open ourselves to the "sublime truths" of the gospel through faith and repentance. And I think the Church is still the only real vehicle through which it is possible for us to take that path toward divinity...John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.com