tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post8174235019252428603..comments2023-10-05T03:21:41.343-06:00Comments on Invictus Pilgrim: My First Pride: Living HonestlyInvictus Pilgrimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-73144328281493286282011-06-12T20:21:08.852-06:002011-06-12T20:21:08.852-06:00Thanks, Kevin. I'm glad I know you, too. Tha...Thanks, Kevin. I'm glad I know you, too. Thanks for marching with us!Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-38120707866156294522011-06-12T14:39:27.745-06:002011-06-12T14:39:27.745-06:00I am a little late coming to the party on this par...I am a little late coming to the party on this particular post, so I apologize. Invictus, as usual, I am so moved by your journey; so thankful to be able to call you my friend; and was thrilled to be able to walk down the street with you in the parade! I love you bud.<br /><br />Brad, I don't know you, but I have not been as offended by anything in a long time as I am by your post here. To bring pedophiles into a conversation about a natural, God made, sexual orientation is beyond my imagination. Pedophilia is the deepest of perversions, and you are right, God IS displeased. If you are going to talk about pedophiles, almost 90% identify as HETEROSEXUAL.<br /><br />Also, and I can only speak for me, but I have never had a stronger relationship in my life with Jesus than I do today. His grace and mercy and faithfulness are more overwhelming to me today than they ever have been, a d yes, I am a totally open, out, gay man! And yes, I AM a Christian!! Thank God, NO ONE can dictate to me what my relationship looks like.<br /><br />If you want to talk Bible, I would love to. I did a two year study, back to the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, and there is nothing I found in these Holy writings that condemn being gay.<br /><br />So please, going forward, be a little more aware of what you are saying, especially if you are trying to speak on the side of God.kevthesingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17991838690340468796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-35660765210227368932011-06-08T09:25:53.362-06:002011-06-08T09:25:53.362-06:00Right after posting that comment, I spent some tim...Right after posting that comment, I spent some time contemplating the fact that I'd get annoyed enough about you stereotyping straight people to post a pair of comments about it. After all, I'm speaking from a position of [straight] privilege, so how is this different from the men who like to mansplain to the feminists that they should be nicer to men? (Especially considering that on this same thread you got someone comparing homosexuals to pedophiles...).<br /><br />One of the things I've learned, however, from my experience as a feminist is that it's not helpful to lump the "other" group together (even in your own mind) as "the enemy". I don't like it when feminists claim (or act like) men are the enemy. Men are not the enemy -- the enemy is ignorance. Same with gay rights: the enemy is not "straight people." the enemy is ignorance.<br /><br />People correctly point out that the less-privileged group is required to understand (even feel empathy for) the more privileged group -- and that that understanding/empathy is rarely reciprocated. And that's not fair. And yet the empathy I've gained (as a woman in a man's world) is priceless to me. I wouldn't exchange it for any amount of additional privilege.<br /><br />Gay Pride in particular is the moment to reach across the aisle to your straight allies. There are plenty of events that are by the queer community and are meant more-or-less exclusively for the queer community. The Gay Pride parade isn't in that category. It's the moment for the queer community to introduce themselves to the general public, and say "Hey, we're a part of the community too -- get used to it!!" In SLC, tens of thousands of people turned up, which means that quite a lot of straight people (<a href="http://blogs.babble.com/babys-first-year-blog/2011/06/07/gay-pride-starting-em-young/" rel="nofollow">including straight parents with their kids</a>) were there to say "Fabulous, we're happy that you're a part of the community."C. L. Hansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698855413639518095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-10565687516930014102011-06-08T07:55:16.469-06:002011-06-08T07:55:16.469-06:00With all due respect to CL and oh how I wish I cou...With all due respect to CL and oh how I wish I could agree with her, but even my straight, non-LDS, non-Utah, liberal friends and relatives think of decadence when they are confronted with an issue regarding Pride. One out-of-stater asked me yesterday if it's "easier to get some" on pride weekend and was I one of the guys in bottomless chaps....Clive Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13429000026909551119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-52056353170922188342011-06-07T12:49:25.582-06:002011-06-07T12:49:25.582-06:00@CL - I hear what you're saying, believe me I ...@CL - I hear what you're saying, believe me I do. However, you need to keep in mind where I live. Salt Lake City is not Denver or Seattle or Dallas. But, again, I take your point: I should have written "straight people who live along the Wasatch Front." (Actually, I did write, "particularly those who live in this valley.")Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-15058354465862486802011-06-07T12:43:41.490-06:002011-06-07T12:43:41.490-06:00Wow, glad you escaped your riptide and found your ...Wow, glad you escaped your riptide and found your Pride! Still looking for mine...Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12775219683154536934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-69402714649352088502011-06-07T11:56:51.907-06:002011-06-07T11:56:51.907-06:00Re: I had pretty much the same stereotypical expec...<i>Re: I had pretty much the same stereotypical expectations of Pride that are probably held by most straight people</i><br /><br />I hate to keep picking on you on this one point, but, really, you're just telling us about <i>your assumptions</i> about straight people -- not about actual straight people's real attitudes.<br /><br />Straight people are all over the map on this. You have your allies who think pride is fab, you have your right-wing conservatives who find gay pride shocking (along with being shocked by a bunch of other things), and then there are those (my guess: the vast majority of straight people) who don't care one whit about what happens at gay pride because it doesn't concern them. It's my impression that conservative gay people have a whole lot more "stereotypical expectations of Pride" than most straight people do.<br /><br />Remember that now the majority of people in the US favor marriage equality -- and that majority includes a lot of straight people. Positive visibility (including gay pride parades) has been a big part of turning indifferent straight people into your allies.C. L. Hansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12698855413639518095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-75746855095851603312011-06-07T09:56:58.173-06:002011-06-07T09:56:58.173-06:00I'm glad you had such a meaningful experience ...I'm glad you had such a meaningful experience at the interfaith service- I heard good things about it from another source as well.<br /><br />I think it makes sense to describe being gay as who you are. However, I'm not convinced that God rejoices _every_ time someone lives honestly, to the extent that honesty means acting in harmony with an aspect of one's identity such as sexual orientation. Some people, for instance, really do have a sexual orientation (emotional, sexual, romantic) towards children. I'm convinced God is displeased when adults act on this identity by developing romantic/sexual peer relationships with children, who are almost always deeply harmed by such action. <br /><br />I think God rejoices when we live honestly, and when we act in harmony with our identity, in ways that increase net human benefit. Homosexuals are merely more lucky than pedophiles, because morally acting in harmony with their gay identity is much more feasible (e.g. they can choose a lifelong committed partnership). Pedophiles (by nature, not necessarily by behavior) are, in my view, truly unlucky. I can see them looking wistfully at a homosexual: those whom pedophiles wish to partner with can't even give meaningful consent. I am grateful that the unnecessarily stigma of being gay is fading; I am at more of a loss for how to help some of the more marginalized groups whose identity, were it realized by behavior, would generally prove net harmful, rather than net beneficial. I am saddened to think of the closeted, lonely, and frustrated lives I imagine many pedophiles live. <br /><br />One could also consider polyamorous folks, whose identity often leads them to form loving, sexual, romantic relationships with several partners. This type of behavior, if open and committed, might be morally acceptable or advisable. However, the morality is greatly hindered because of natural human jealousy of the first spouse, and the normative expectation that marriage entails an exclusive commitment in the arena of sexual/romantic/emotional intimacy overlap (hence, poly folks often break commitments to be true to themselves). For the polyamorous and the pedophile, I think the morality of their behavior is affected by the reality of their identity: however, the calculus is far from complete after that lone consideration.Brad Carmackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10085934989070955986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-24818301409914165552011-06-07T07:56:58.132-06:002011-06-07T07:56:58.132-06:00I look forward to reading your post, Miguel. I...I look forward to reading your post, Miguel. I'm so glad I was there to share that wonderful experience with you. Love you too!Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-78607580740917088142011-06-07T07:44:29.647-06:002011-06-07T07:44:29.647-06:00That service was just what my soul needed to set t...That service was just what my soul needed to set the tone for the day, I had never been to a Methodist church in my life so it was overwhelming to experience being told at church that God wasn't just ok with me, HE loved me. <br /><br />Everything about the service, the music, the simplicity of the sermon, communion (where the pastor went out of his way to make sure anyone was welcome), the circle at the end...I'm still very emotional just thinking about the service alone and the rest of the day's events. I'm trying to put together a posting just about that experience and it was very touching (and dare I say healing?) to be there and share this experience. Love you man!<br />Hugs,MiguelMiguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04203771368783213108noreply@blogger.com