tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post9047641141819192268..comments2023-10-05T03:21:41.343-06:00Comments on Invictus Pilgrim: Where I'm At: Clearing Out the Back of the ClosetInvictus Pilgrimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-45534564769743755912011-08-20T17:14:29.878-06:002011-08-20T17:14:29.878-06:00Hmm anonymous. So what would my sexual identity be...Hmm anonymous. So what would my sexual identity be? Homosexual? I'm a 5 out of 6?<br /> Gay is, I think, a combination of social and sexual identity. I'm also no expert on Kinsey either, but let's say a man had a slight attraction to men and was a 2 on the scale. Is he suddenly a bisexual? He'd probably refer to himself as heterosexual or straight.<br /> Same thing with men that have a slight attraction to women. They'd probably prefer gay to bisexual.<br /> Technically speaking, all gay men who are married could call themselves bisexual since one of the elements of the scale is behavior. Because they have had sex with women they could be labeled bisexual. However when they have sex with women not out of preference but out of societal and religious rules and conditioning, is the scale a natural reflection of their orientation? <br /><br />People can identify however they wish. But I think what we're talking about with the word gay is the fact that gay men are more sexually and emotionally attracted to men than they are to women. That's sexual orientation. <br /> It's not clear cut or black and white. Some gay men can make marriage work better than others. Speaking of terms and identities, the oft used term "same-sex attraction" contributes to the confusion. Scientifically, the term is fine. It describes a phenomenon of being attracted to and aroused by men. But it makes no difference for a man who maybe occasionally has a sexual thought or fantasy for a guy, one that's truly bisexual, and one that's almost exclusively homosexual. It also precludes the fact that gay and bisexual men are emotionally attracted to men, or that they desire an emotional connection from a same-sex relationship and instead focuses only on the physical part of that relationship.<br /><br /> I don't think there's anything wrong with talking in terms of same-sex attraction per se. In Mormondom though, it's come to connote some sort of condition or disease or struggle to be overcome rather than simply a genetic or physiological trait. The stigma attached with the term is what I dislike, as well as an attempt to force people to use it to as an identity as a way to keep them from identifying with other like minded and similarly wired people, i.e. gay.<br /> But I digress.....Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13589508168777037793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-51522341762694544952011-08-17T20:30:17.284-06:002011-08-17T20:30:17.284-06:00IPs explanation is well spoken. As one high on th...IPs explanation is well spoken. As one high on the Kinsey scale, it was indeed out of a very strong sense of moral and religious duty that I married. That duty came seriously close to cutting short my emotional and physical well-being.<br /><br />And as far as how we could "get it up", well, the mind is a powerful, creative system and can compensate when it has to - usually.Treynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-63780943486311194142011-08-17T09:56:20.704-06:002011-08-17T09:56:20.704-06:00I'm not an expert on the Kinsey Scale, but I&#...I'm not an expert on the Kinsey Scale, but I'm quite confident that men who aren't a 6 identify as gay. I'm not going to comment on "social identity" vs. "sexual identity" as I don't understand or appreciate the relevance of those terms and any distinction between the two.<br /><br />The crucial fact in understanding mixed-orientation marriages is that, historically (and even today, in most cases), such marriages were entered into not by choice but out of a sense of religious and moral duty. In an ideal world where being gay is considered a normality, such would not be the case.Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-85023485173022961042011-08-17T09:51:45.141-06:002011-08-17T09:51:45.141-06:00So as you say, Kinsey 6 mormons dont usually get m...So as you say, Kinsey 6 mormons dont usually get married to women, and people on a scale lower do. So wouldn't they be bisexual then? Excuse my ignorance if im wrong here. For instance, in your case, was there no-negligible sexual attraction to women, or was the sexual attraction to men simply more than women. And wouldnt then the term "gay" be more about a social identity, rather than a sexual identity?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-65531768907387287062011-08-17T08:39:50.394-06:002011-08-17T08:39:50.394-06:00Thanks for your comments, Anonymous.
I guess I ...Thanks for your comments, Anonymous. <br /><br />I guess I would offer the following as food for thought: <br /><br />(1) In general society 20+ years ago, being gay was not accepted nearly as well as it is today. Thus, many closeted gay men, such as I, did not feel it was possible to come out and therefore opted for marriage to a woman. <br /><br />(2) Furthermore, men raised in conservative religious traditions, such as Mormonism, felt a huge additional pressure to deny their homosexuality and marry. It is not unusual, within the Mormon world, for gay Mormon men to not even realize they are gay until years into a heterosexual marriage.<br /><br />(3) Because of the extremely strong taboo against pre-marital sex of <i>any</i> kind, most closeted gay Mormon men would never have experienced gay sex of any sort prior to getting married.<br /><br />(4) It is relatively unusual, for a Mormon man who is a Kinsey 6 to get married; I know of several men who just could not bring themselves to contemplate sex with a woman. Those who do get married, therefore, are typically lower on the scale.<br /><br />(5) Taking all these factors into account, young gay Mormon men who get married typically don't have a problem "getting it up" because they're young, they have hormones, and they don't know any better. That being said, it is not uncommon for sex in such marriages to dwindle. Furthermore, once the "forbidden fruit" is actually tasted, unless a man is truly bisexual, I would say - as a general statement - heterosexual sex becomes much more of a challenge, if not an impossibility.<br /><br />Just my two cents.Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-5119615244748337932011-08-17T08:12:06.119-06:002011-08-17T08:12:06.119-06:00Been reading your blog. It is astonishing how many...Been reading your blog. It is astonishing how many married gay men are out there. I have always been curious how gay men can indulge in physical relations with a woman? I can understand that they are not emotionally attracted to women, but are they also not physically attracted. And if they are not physically attracted, then how do they "get it up"? It had always seemed to me that a gay man married to a woman is a contradiction in itself, but your blog and many others have forced me to think about this again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com