tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post9156701012409549876..comments2023-10-05T03:21:41.343-06:00Comments on Invictus Pilgrim: Meeting with the Bishop: What Just Happened?Invictus Pilgrimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-49114095790795639342011-01-30T10:25:59.397-07:002011-01-30T10:25:59.397-07:00My experience with my bishop was forced when my wi...My experience with my bishop was forced when my wife decided to out me to him because she was 'prompted' to do it. Being compelled to sit in front of a bishop brought me to a place where I was forced to reconcile. The experience was, should I say, 'awkward'. The outcome was a confession from my bishop that I was the only person he ever dealt with this 'problem'. Because I had 'acted out' on my homosexuality, I was 'disciplined' and sent home and haven't heard anything since. I think that by forcing me out of the 'fold' they have every reason not to deal with me and my 'problem'. Ahhh, human ignorance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-49130857440272897352010-11-29T10:50:36.257-07:002010-11-29T10:50:36.257-07:00No, Beck. I totally agree with you.No, Beck. I totally agree with you.Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-2535959709093559032010-11-29T08:20:59.974-07:002010-11-29T08:20:59.974-07:00I have never felt the "good" that would ...I have never felt the "good" that would come from revealing such things to a bishop. I know he's supposed to be the priesthood leader who is entitled to inspiration and from which I'm entitled to receive... Having worked very closely with several bishops, I've just never been so inclined. <br /><br />I always end up weighing the pros and cons and the cons always win out. Since I haven't "seriously sinned" (except the sin of crushing after and lusting after guys)I always end up asking "so what's the point?" I don't want to be treated in some special category, or handled like a hot potato. Maybe I'm cutting off the support that could be offered, but I much rather try to be ME for me, and be free to serve without restrictions than to be a "special case" that one doesn't know what to do with. Is this wrong?Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-49071203809548854622010-11-28T21:00:19.988-07:002010-11-28T21:00:19.988-07:00I have probably a 1/2 dozen past experiences when ...I have probably a 1/2 dozen past experiences when I was in a bishops office to get "help" as a single man. Each time, the reaction I got was a glazed-over, deer in the headlights look. <br /><br />To be fair, the "G" word was never uttered. I never said, "I like guys." But there was enough said that each of those 6 bishops knew what I was talking about and none of them wanted to touch the subject with a 10 foot pole. One, at BYU sent me to talk with a counselor in the Stake Presidency who was apparently the specialist on such issues... I met with him a couple of times a week for several months. After which he tried to set me up with his daughter... Can we say "clueless?"<br /><br />That's what you get when you have a lay, untrained clergy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-36499838778706687382010-11-28T14:32:29.080-07:002010-11-28T14:32:29.080-07:00Thanks, Ned. Yes, it was helpful to write it, and...Thanks, Ned. Yes, it was helpful to write it, and I'm glad it was helpful to you. <br /><br />I find that memory is a very funny and fickle thing, particularly when one is dealing with repressed memories. Like a shy child, a memory sometimes has to be coaxed out of hiding; and sometimes, this can take awhile.Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-84466737960813589002010-11-28T14:17:46.369-07:002010-11-28T14:17:46.369-07:00Vic, you said early on in your conversation with y...Vic, you said early on in your conversation with your Bishop, " I think...I had started to cry a bit." Like you I have only told one of my many Bishops over the years, and like you I also started to cry as I did. I hope it was helpful for you to write about this. It helped me to read it and also try to remember how much I don't remember.Nedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05938186985738546670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-25763148734147308032010-11-28T13:11:06.695-07:002010-11-28T13:11:06.695-07:00Thanks, Stuart. I appreciate your comments, and I...Thanks, Stuart. I appreciate your comments, and I do hope that my ramblings might mean something and even be helpful to someone else besides myself.<br /><br />I also enjoyed reading through your blog, particularly your latest post (hope you post more soon). The message, as well as your art, was beautiful. Thanks for sharing.Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-75248366598823247492010-11-28T11:11:22.295-07:002010-11-28T11:11:22.295-07:00very insightful. you have a great narrative voice....very insightful. you have a great narrative voice. I also struggled in my early twenties with an uneducated church with blinders on. your story could help many men like me and you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-50569243226481553032010-11-28T07:03:24.193-07:002010-11-28T07:03:24.193-07:00Libellule - Yes, you are right about Evergreen. I...Libellule - Yes, you are right about Evergreen. I wasn't hoping that I could have received a "cure". My point was that going there might have brought a lot of stuff to the surface, rather than keeping it repressed deep down within me and within my marriage. <br /><br />What was so curious about this whole incident was that I had "offered myself" upon the metaphorical sacrificial altar (i.e., by "confessing" to the bishop), exposing myself to embarrassment, possible church discipline and perhaps even the end of my marriage. Yet, in the end, nothing came of it. Wierd.Invictus Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15961213460164925021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6144399754818696603.post-68392585655700970182010-11-28T06:22:08.649-07:002010-11-28T06:22:08.649-07:00Yes, I agree that the bishop could have dealt with...Yes, I agree that the bishop could have dealt with this differently, and I think that it is normal to have "what ifs" roaming through your mind. It is unfortunate that so many church leaders only seek to enforce rules and programs rather than explore humanity and spirituality which goes beyond the confines of a religious doctrine.<br /><br />First, I also must admit something that has always been on my mind: how much do we really know from the scriptures. I don't mean to offend anyone, but when you think of your own censorship of a blog, or a personal journal: does one write EVERYTHING? How can we say that same sex relationships did not occur during Jesus' time? When you think that it was a current practice amongst the Greeks 400 BC, it just makes sense that it wasn't a modern day reality. Ok, I'll stop there...<br /><br />Secondly, I may be wrong in my understanding, but doesn't Evergreen and all programs from the church seek to control the outcome of such "exploration", i.e., point the person to understanding that a person can have same sex attraction but that it must not go beyond feelings due to the position of the church as only believing in acting upon sexual attraction within marriage, and marriage is only defined as between a man and a woman? Isn't this controlled exploration with an agenda? <br /><br />Finally, I hope that memories will find their place again in the accessible portion of your mind. They could simply be hidden beneath the surface of what you are now able to remember due to +25 years of repression and not simply suppression. http://www.prep4usmle.com/forum/thread/5540/<br /><br />Peace and strength dear Invictus!Libellulehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07633236721899345816noreply@blogger.com